管理層發言
Good morning. My name is Sioban Hickie, VP of IR, and I would like to welcome everyone to SunPower's Third Quarter Earnings Call. I will review a few housekeeping items before turning the call over to our CEO, Dr. T.J. Rodgers. To begin, this call is being recorded, and a replay will be available on our company's Investor Relations website within the Events section. Please note today's presentation may contain projections and other forward-looking statements. These statements are subject to known and unknown risks and uncertainties that may cause actual results to differ from those expressed or implied in our statements. Also on today's call, we may discuss certain non-GAAP financial measures. A reconciliation of any differences between these non-GAAP financial measures and the most directly comparable GAAP financial measures are available within our press release. Lastly, we will hold a question-and-answer session after the end of formal remarks today. For those watching via the webcast, you may submit a written question at any time via the submission box located at the right-hand side of your screen. I will now turn the call over to T.J. Rodgers, SunPower's Chairman and CEO.
Thank you, Sioban. We have our quarterly report for the third quarter. Our logo features the Helios airplane, which set a record in 2001 for taking off under solar power using SunPower solar cells. These cells allow light to pass through the bottom of the wings, which are made of clear plastic from both sides, resulting in a bifacial design. No fighter plane, not even the SR-71, has matched this. I'm looking into purchasing one since they are now obsolete. Ideally, I’d like to display it in our lobby, but its 247-foot wingspan presents a challenge. I've connected with an engineer who has one in a hangar; he was involved in the project and shared a photo of it flying at approximately 80,000 feet, high above the atmosphere. Here with me are the administrative officers from SunPower, including Dan, who recently joined us. He has an impressive background in marketing and sales and played a significant role in the Sunder acquisition, which we will discuss today. He and I are the only two individuals at SunPower with ranks above Executive Vice President or equivalent, which is unusual, but it allows me to closely manage operations without the complication of a larger team. This is the report I sent out last night, and I also designed a commemorative postage stamp featuring our new logo. Now let’s discuss the details of our profit and loss statement. It's straightforward and easy to read, but there’s a lot of information to cover, so I’ll go through it slowly. First, this reflects how we operate the company, similar to most businesses. We saw growth in the prior quarter, which was challenging due to the ITC. There are two main reasons for this situation: the ITC didn’t get worse, and people are adapting to it. Additionally, the revenue from the Sunder acquisition included only a few days of operations, which was minimal but still affected our figures. I’ll address the next quarter later. We had solid gross margins, but I need to clarify that our gross margin isn't truly at 48%. We made some favorable deals from SunPower that temporarily boosted our gross margins by about 4 to 5 percentage points. The merger with Sunder will likely impact this as well. For those monitoring our performance, please be cautious about assumptions regarding our gross margins moving forward. We have two forms of operational expenses as required by FASB, which includes sales costs and commissions. I prefer to exclude commissions from my operational expense calculation to better assess the company's performance, as maintaining low costs is critical. Therefore, comparing last quarter’s $17 million operational expenses to this quarter’s $23 million might suggest a significant increase; however, our actual costs this quarter are flat or slightly down, with some reserves accumulated. We had a successful quarter, maintaining lean operations and generating good gross profit. I requested a thorough cleaning of our accounts this quarter, removing older accounts receivable and setting reserves for questionable lines after one of our finance companies went bankrupt. Despite including an extra $5 million to $6 million in reserves, we still achieved an operating income of $3.1 million, which I consider a positive outcome. We’re now at 4.5% of revenue with a target of 10%, which I believe is attainable. On a less favorable note, we faced some challenges with our cash flow, dropping from $10 million or $11 million to just $4 million due to large payments on our convertible debentures. Consequently, I am currently raising funds. To summarize, our revenue grew to $70 million from $67.5 million, with profits increasing to $3.12 million from the previous $2.42 million, as I mentioned earlier regarding our cash balance. This graph shows our operating income. In terms of operating income, which adheres to GAAP standards, we face a correction. Our GAAP profit is reported at minus $2.3 million, primarily due to stock compensation charges totaling $5.4 million. Most of this is for stock compensation, as we have 83.11 million shares and provide employee stock options, which we believe benefits shareholders in the long run. The remaining $1.3 million is significant, as we are now depreciating the SunPower name and our software, Albatross, both acquired in the asset purchase. These were appraised and acquired, necessitating depreciation. This chart illustrates our adjusted operating income, which reflects our operational performance since acquiring the assets. After initially losing money, we started generating profit once we divested that underperforming segment. Coming out of the SunPower bankruptcy, we had approximately $320 million in revenue, but we were significantly impacted like many others. This has been disappointing because we achieved profitability but then saw a decline. Despite this, we still managed a profit with ongoing efforts to minimize costs. In this quarter, we’re back to $70 million in revenue, achieving $3.12 million in operating income despite taking reserves. Looking ahead to Q3 '25, we’ve just integrated Sunder. Initial revenue from Sunder will be slow, as they earn through solar sales, with costs typically attached. We’ll need to gradually build the pipeline. As such, we’ve already begun hiring to facilitate this growth, and we anticipate revenue increases. I had extensive discussions yesterday regarding Q1 projections. If I don’t share information, people will inquire means I need to give a well-thought-out response. Unfortunately, I won’t have data on shipments or backlogs until the end of the quarter. Our current booking rates are promising, especially with Sunder’s performance doubling our rates. We performed simulations estimating a minimum profit of $2 million for Q1, which we're optimistic to exceed. Q1 is historically weak due to weather conditions affecting our services, but we will advance to a stronger spring quarter followed by a robust fall quarter. This is our outlook. I haven’t presented revenue forecasts yet, but based on our modeling, I’m confident we can achieve at least $2 million in profit. Our company restructuring involved bringing together 3,499 individuals from three different entities without inherited workforce issues. We initiated hires based on affordability and gradually refined our team size. The current headcount is at 829, including new hires from Sunder, which has positively impacted our company culture. Our headcount discussions focus on evaluating whether to replace staff and when to hire strategically based on need. This method promotes deeper evaluations and minimizes unnecessary staffing. Thus far, we’ve maintained downward trends in our headcount while integrating Sunder personnel. Looking at our efficiency metrics, our revenue per employee has risen significantly, reflecting Sunder’s contribution. Our internal teams, like Blue Raven and New Homes, each generate varying levels of revenue per employee, with Sunder notably outperforming in this regard. To sum it up, we’re witnessing a notable shift in our financial standing as monitored through all avenues. Our efficiency is key to preventing unnecessary expenditures while maximizing profits as revenue growth drives our strategy. We remain focused on acquisitions and streamlined operations. This report was released early this morning, capturing our standing. Historically, we've seen price fluctuations within a certain range, and I'm hopeful this trend may be breaking.
37.7 million.
37 million shares were traded today. In our efforts to raise funds, I aim to instill confidence in larger investors to transition from retail to institutional shareholders, who have been supportive of us, and I'm not complaining about that. Regarding share price, this graph shows market capitalization relative to revenue, specifically the price-to-sales ratio for brevity. Essentially, it represents quarterly revenue multiplied by four, divided by share count, equating to share price. Our peer group, which includes both good and bad companies, trades at about a ratio of 2, indicating a general decline across the industry, and we are following that downward trend. We've allocated shares to our employees and executives have significant equity, which means we'll benefit as individuals when the company succeeds. While our headquarters is in Utah, which is less conventional than Silicon Valley, awareness is growing there. Even in our last low quarter, assuming we can achieve a price-to-sales ratio of 1, it would still place us below our peers with our current 83.11 million shares translating to a price of $3.37. This is not an unrealistic target, and it becomes achievable as soon as we attract major investors. So, why hasn't that occurred? One reason is a prevailing concern about our viability, which is understandable. I can share that I’m 77 years old and not in this for financial needs; I started this venture to succeed. Another significant issue is the misinformation from retail market data firms. I recently spoke at a Canaccord event where investors were making decisions based on outdated information about a company that had filed for bankruptcy over a year ago. Some companies claim to provide sound investment advice but do not, and our criticisms of that will grow stronger. We made progress by reaching out to CNET, whose core value is to publish truthful information. They acknowledged our situation and have corrected the misinformation, allowing us to better communicate our current standing to investors. Eric Nielsen is our new Executive Vice President of Sales, and he brings a dynamic presence to the team. He previously led Sunder and now reports to Dan, who along with me, is part of our leadership team. Since Dan has sales expertise, our performance is improving. With the strategic acquisition of Sunder Energy, we've become the fifth largest residential solar company. Their sales force has expanded our reach, increasing the number of contractors in our dealer network substantially. I wanted to know how our booking rates were progressing, which have actually more than doubled. However, keep in mind that a 2x increase in bookings results in a 1.3x increase in revenue, as bookings contribute 30% and the remaining 70% comes from turning those bookings into completed systems. Currently, we're filling our pipeline with new bookings because prior contracts were sold elsewhere before Sunder’s involvement. I’m cautious because I know you’ll be looking for big numbers, and it puts pressure on me to meet future forecasts, so I wanted to raise that concern. Dan, please share more about Sunder.
So there's 2 things I'd like you to take away from this. First off is that Sunder knows what they're doing in this space. They are the acknowledged experts in how to hire, motivate, drive, retain and fire, when necessary, a 1099 sales force. This shows up fast inside of SunPower in the first 3.5 weeks the Sunder team has captured the imagination, frankly, the heart of our existing sales force. They are now totally behind Sunder. They're modifying their behavior. They're modifying their sales strategies to be more like Sunder. So the first thing I'd like you to remember is that Sunder knows what they're doing. They are absolute pros of this, and they are not only contributing to bookings organically from the previous Sunder organization, they are causing an increase in bookings in our SunPower organization. The second thing is that Sunder is strong where we were weak. We were in about 22 states. We're now in 45 states. The important thing to remember there is that there was very little overlap between where Sunder was and where SunPower was. In other words, Sunder was strong in California, Texas, Florida, we were not. So what you're seeing now is no negative synergies in bookings. And as T.J. pointed out before, our booking numbers are extremely strong in Q1. The first 3 weeks were at 120% of plan discounting to Sunder. So it's even more when you add the Sunder bookings on top of that. So we're proud of the bookings. We're proud of the way that the SunPower sales organization is aligning with and joining with the Sunder team.
We have a couple more points to make. Regarding Sunder, we have emphasized that they should keep their own practices, which is important because typically the acquiring company dictates how business is done. When we acquire a company that excels in a specific area, we allow them to maintain their approach. For instance, Sunder is well-regarded in Solar Valley and Salt Lake for their advanced sales force, recruitment, and training capabilities, which allows them to quickly train new hires to be effective. This reputation is spreading in the industry; since joining us, we've received 232 inquiries about joining SunPower's Sunder division, and we have already signed up 195 individuals. Unlike typical situations where dealer interest wanes with change in the parent company, we're not encountering that issue. Additionally, we have merged more swiftly than anticipated, forming a unified sales force of 1,744 members under Eric's leadership. I recently spoke with Evan Dwyer, our VP of Sales, and he confirmed we now have the necessary personnel and systems to support our growth goals. If the sales team is not aligned with management, success becomes difficult, which is why I mentioned this in our quarterly report. Our outlook predicts $83 million in revenue and $3.5 million in profit, both of which are estimated records. On another note, we've signed a joint development agreement with REC, the largest panel seller in the U.S., which will lead to further developments as we figure out our collaborative roles. Our inverter partner, Enphase, has also brought us a $200,000 battery opportunity. While our firm's focus has not been on batteries due to our primary businesses, Sunder has a 50% success rate in battery sales. We are starting to see some momentum in this area. I previously qualified 100 technicians to install batteries quickly and efficiently, and we are poised to increase our attach rate significantly. Looking ahead, I have set a mission for consistent profitable growth, aiming to achieve $1 billion in revenue by 2028. This requires both internal growth and acquisitions. I'm targeting six companies for potential acquisition, focusing on those with existing efficiencies and technology we can leverage. With our projections, even with potential share issuance, we expect our revenue per share to remain strong. Our goal is for recognition as a leader in solar by introducing advanced technology hardware and software solutions, particularly in partnership with Enphase and REC. We believe these innovations will set us apart and enhance our market position. We are now ready for questions.
Our first question today comes from Derek Soderberg from Cantor Fitzgerald.
分析師問答
T.J., you just mentioned the $200,000 battery opportunity with Enphase. I'm imagining those are part of a solar install as well, but curious if those are Enphase batteries? And then how should we sort of quantify that opportunity for SunPower?
Well, first of all, let me say, as one of only 2 people above the Vice President level. I asked about our AVL, and we kind of had one, but we kind of didn't use it. So I took over the AVL and there's only one battery in it, it's called Enphase. And the reason is exactly what I said, the Enphase battery is the only battery compatible with future electronic systems. So it came through Enphase. I am not at liberty right now to say what it is. It's not new stuff, dig it out. It is an opportunity for an existing group, and I'll leave it there.
Got it. So regarding the 2028 goal for the company to reach a $1 billion run rate in revenue, I want to clarify that it seems the base for gross margin is 38%. Is that figure inclusive of the Sunder acquisition, and is that the gross margin range we should anticipate? Additionally, T.J., if you can provide any insight, how do you see earnings per share when we hit the $1 billion mark? In the past, you've mentioned a 10% profit margin; is that still applicable at that level of revenue?
So it's a complex question that presents many opportunities for future challenges. Firstly, according to what I've shared on the slide, which we will also post on our website for your reference, the current gross margin is at 38%. This margin reflects our ability to efficiently process an order through today's SunPower, where we can achieve a gross margin of 38% and potentially reach a 10% profit on operating income with increased volume. That is our target. Now, as for our reported gross margin at an aggregate level, we can think of this in terms of two distinct companies and a mixed approach. Currently, Sunder operates as a sales company with gross margins around 16%. I am open to accepting a profitable sales order and reporting it as a SunPower sale. However, for the potential value of a system, I'd only earn about 30% from the sales order. In this initial month, Sunder is still focused on their established customer base, meaning we won’t see revenue until they fill up our line for the quarter. Additionally, we can’t simply double our installation size; with 150 employees, it's not feasible to train another 150 in a short timeframe, which means a gradual ramp-up throughout the year. I acknowledge that my prior communication on transitioning from sales-only revenue and gross margin to including EPC may have been confusing. It might appear like an internal order with no cost, but the margin is 38% or 36% if we want to be cautious. Moving forward, a potential future mix of 50-50 between the two might be worth considering. I am a strong proponent of divisions, and we plan to share more specific figures regarding the revenue and profitability of our Blue Raven internal sales and fulfillment team, as well as our New Homes team, which sells to corporations at a large scale. We're also developing a new sales organization; there's still some decision-making about how to report that. One option is to keep the larger sales organization to sell to us and Blue Raven from whom installations are done. Blue Raven generates 70% of their revenue from installations, regardless of where the materials originate from. The sales team remains focused solely on sales, which has proven effective for driving revenue. The reason for my earlier ambiguity is that we are currently undergoing significant changes, and we now have a clearer understanding of the situation. I can assure you we will generate profit in the first quarter and have provided you with that figure. You'll need to wait for about 90 days to receive more detailed information. Regarding earnings per share, we are not at that point yet. While we can calculate it, we face some gaps that result in a negative few cents per share. Until we achieve profitability and turn our attention to EPS, I am primarily focused on operating income, which is the key metric I share with our investors.
Our next question comes from the web. Based on 2Q, SunPower's breakeven revenue has proven defensible in the mid-$60 million revenue range. Post acquisition, do you anticipate any changes to that breakeven revenue level?
No. And that's the beauty of the situation. While we're facing challenges with orders, a person comes in and says they have a team of 20 ready to help. If we hire them and provide stock options, they promise to double our order rate, which is an obvious choice. So, the only additional investment needed for growth will be to expand the fulfillment team, and I want them to grow significantly. My goal is to have more orders than we can handle, so we can sell the orders we are unable to fulfill while successfully executing the ones we can manage.
Our next question comes from Gus Richard from Northland Capital. He asks about the duration of the battery contract. How many years is the battery contract for, and if you have the figures right, it could generate $1 billion in revenue for Enphase?
Yes. 50% of what I said is $1 million. I'm hoping for more than that. The opportunity is there, $200,000. 50% is $100,000. When you think battery, think $10,000. There's 5 kilowatt-hour batteries, 10 kilowatt-hour batteries, the average out there is 8.5 kilowatt hours. Batteries now are attractive. Battery-only sales are attractive. The way that happens is, take San Diego Gas & Electric. I mean I like to gripe about PG&E. But they're equally it's bad. So when we went to NEM 3, Net Electricity Metering revenue 3 or REV3, they stopped paying their customers who had excess power on their roofs and put it back into the grid at the grid rate that they were charging. And they started paying $0.03 a kilowatt hour. Okay. So that means you're losing your power. That means your solar system, new solar system wouldn't have an ROI. Now the other interesting thing is that after 4:00 in the afternoon, they start charging at a high price. I once knew it, but think about $0.40 a kilowatt hour. So they'll give you $0.03 and take $0.40. All right. So you put a battery in it's called the grid-tied battery. It's the cheapest, the most cost-efficient battery. It sucks up power till noon, saves it and powers your house starting at 4:00. So you pay $0.03 a kilowatt hour that you could have gotten for it, and you give back $0.40 a kilowatt hour. And however big your battery is you get that every day. So it's $0.40 a kilowatt hour times 5-kilowatt hour battery, even small battery, you're looking at $2 a day times 365 days, et cetera. So this thing pays itself quickly. Batteries are going to become more important that come from the fundamental problem. The sun only shines on average in North America 5 hours a day. So if you want to use solar power, which actually getting kilowatts off the system is the cheapest possible power. And what the opponents of solar say is that it's really more expensive than that because you have to have 2 power plans, one for the day and one for the night. And when you have one for the day, yes, you can have a nominal gain on it, but then you got to turn on the big expensive one and burn natural gas at night. And that's the argument. Well, it just says we need more storage. So right now, storage and utility space is going through the roof. The best storage is if everybody at their load has storage. Then I don't have to have some giant battery going into transformers and then putting out power in the neighborhoods. The guy out there can, in effect, reduce his load. If you think about it, you can reduce his load. And that's why batteries are happening now, and it's a big deal. Now what I just said, I actually saw in Oshkosh, and I was trying to sell a battery at the dining room table, kitchen table. We don't have dining rooms in Wisconsin, only kitchens. So I gave them the thing and the guy looked at me, kind of frowned and said, Wisconsin Power and Electric, their cost is $0.12 a kilowatt hour and they only go off for a couple of hours every year. Why do I need a battery? So that's one of the reasons we haven't sold as many batteries as I would like, as we're deployed in those states, Midwest. Blue Raven, now all of a sudden, this doubles our sales force in all the states where my argument about saving power for night-time are absolutely valid and are going to get better as time goes on.
The next question we have, while appreciating the opportunity in the market to acquire attractive assets currently, can you speak to how you think about the balance between acquisitions and bolstering the balance sheet and the potential need to raise capital?
I try to simplify things, but I think about them carefully. Unlike my previous training, which emphasized culture and mission statements, I wrote this mission statement because our current culture isn't ready for one yet. My focus is on achieving consistent profitable growth, not just growing from $300 million to $1 billion. I intend to ensure profitability every quarter. I don’t believe in a model where a company runs at a loss with the expectation that it will improve when sales increase. I'm looking for acquisitions that are appropriately priced. Our current multiple is $0.45, and I won’t pay more than that in terms of price-to-sales ratio, as that would dilute our metrics. So that's my guideline. I also aim to build a team with potential new executives from these acquisitions, ensuring they fit well together. During my time at Cypress, we acquired 26 companies, and I found that cultural compatibility is crucial for successful mergers and acquisitions. The numbers have to add up for me to proceed, and as our stock price increases, I can afford to pay a bit more while keeping my budget in mind. Regarding capacity, if I were to receive $1 billion in orders today, we’d likely only utilize about $900 million of that by the end of the quarter because we can’t handle that volume all at once. The same goes for mergers; at Cypress, we pursued about one acquisition per year. There might be busy periods, but there’s also a lot of hard work that follows afterward. Badri Kothandaraman, who was directly involved with me at Enphase, has successfully acquired five companies and has raised our acquisition standards. I believe we can handle about two acquisitions per year, starting with possibly just one in the first year, and we’ll avoid diluting our price-to-sales ratio. I will use stock for acquisitions if possible and plan to raise capital through our stock when the price allows for it without causing excessive dilution. For context, my current salary at SunPower is zero because I don’t want to impact our profits negatively. I hold 30 million shares and have been with the company for years, only making money when the stock appreciates. My focus is purely on being a shareholder and acting in that capacity.
Thank you. I do want to point out that we are at time, but we do have a few more questions in the queue.
I'm here. We're in the Middle East by the way. They have a little studio they lend to us for free. So we're here. Now, go ahead.
Okay. We have a follow-up question from Gus Richard from Northland Capital. How many of the Sunder sales are being converted into sales at this point into EPC?
The question is how many of Sunder orders are being converted into EPC revenue? Okay, that I will report this quarter. The answer is very little because it's going to take me one quarter to fill the pipeline. What our plan is, in the fourth quarter of this year, if we manage to capture half of the orders from Sunder, and that's pretty aggressive, we will then get $20 million per quarter of sales revenue from Sunder just for their orders, and $20 more million of install revenue from internal. And right now, this quarter, we get only the sales part of it.
Our next question is, as energy demand accelerates due to data center growth, energy pricing will continue to increase, making solar more attractive. How does the energy price trajectory play into your long-term vision for growth?
I recently looked into a startup and was struck by the ingenuity of our country. Despite our challenges, we have incredible talent. There is a facility called Helms in Sierra Nevada, Nevada. PG&E once disrupted my business by cutting off my power, which cost us millions in wafer production. After some negotiations, I made it clear that I wanted a tour of the Diablo Canyon Nuclear Plant with a qualified engineer. So I made the trip down the scenic Highway 1. The tour was impressive, and I observed three large wires connected to Diablo Canyon, which could generate 2 gigawatts. These lines connect to Helms, which acts as our energy storage. Nuclear plants can't be easily turned on and off; they need time to ramp up and run continuously. The energy is best stored overnight and released during the day. I called the PG&E representative again, feeling optimistic, but requested one more favor: a tour of Helms. It consists of two lakes in the Sierra Nevada, separated by 4,000 feet, with a hydro system buried deep within a granite mountain. At night, water flows down a tunnel, spins turbines, and fills the lower lake. The water levels fluctuate by six feet. Then, those turbines reverse and pump water back up overnight. This is essentially the world's largest battery. I just reviewed a business plan that leverages this well-established, cost-effective technology, which is significantly cheaper than other storage methods, especially in comparison to car batteries or home batteries. The plan involves setting up an AI center next to our facility. We can dig 50-foot wide tunnels at a rate of about 30 feet a day, going deep underground to create a network of tunnels without the need for a lake or mountainous location. An artificial lake would sit on top, allowing us to pump water up and down through these tunnels, eliminating the need for costly transmission lines. This gives us a clear path to solve our energy challenges. The prevailing concern over these issues stems from political narratives of impending doom, which typically lead people to focus more on the negatives than the positives. However, these obstacles will be addressed, and we will develop our data center. I also believe that our energy needs will decrease. Just as the early generations relied on outdated technology, such as vacuum tubes, we have evolved to use transistors, which demand less power. I am confident that the power requirements for AI will reduce, and many startup companies are working on making AI less energy-intensive while achieving the same outcomes.
Our last question. In the previous earnings call, T.J. mentioned he might not be serving as CEO in a year. Is this still the case? Can you share any information about the preparations for this transition or the succession planning process?
Okay. First of all, I didn't intend to take on the role of running another company; it was more of a situation I found myself in. It's like finding a baby on your doorstep during a storm—you take it in. So here I am, enjoying it, though there are moments of frustration. I'm not rushing to leave. I've been working hard to find someone to take over, but I don't have a set deadline to walk away. I've made three real attempts that nobody knows about, and it's a challenging role because the financial demands are just as high as those in semiconductors, but the solar industry is very different. It's reminiscent of the semiconductor field in the '80s. Younger individuals may come in and see the situation, and I introduce them to Dan, the administrative executive staff member. They might only be able to hire one person in the future due to budget constraints. I see it as a significant challenge to elevate the company while operating very lean. So far, I've had no success in finding the right person. I’ve started discussions with another candidate, but it's a hard task to find the right fit. If I choose the wrong person, and they don't succeed, then I could blame them when things go wrong. However, I genuinely want this company to thrive.
Thank you. As one of your team members, I want to express that the joy is in the journey. We appreciate everyone being here to teach and guide us. With that, we've reached the end of our questions. This concludes our Q&A session, and I will now pass it back to Dr. Rodgers for closing remarks.
I've talked a lot during this session, so I don't have much left to add. I believe that our mission may seem straightforward, but it reflects a classic Winston Churchill sentiment. He once wrote, 'Please pardon the long letter. I didn't have the time to write a short one.' This idea is relevant to our mission statement, which I’ve chosen not to include here because it somewhat diminishes the essence of our mission. That's REV25, which used to be much more detailed. That brief segment was later included in some promotional material to support our recent funding round, which helped us acquire Sunder. It's genuine, and I truly mean it. We're committed to this vision, and I feel every week we are moving closer to it. Dan, you've been with me for a long time, and I could use your support here as we tackle some sales challenges.
Yes, since '93. It's a long time. I think there's 2 things I'd like to leave with on this. First off, the acquisition of this particular company Sunder is positively transformational for our bookings, positively. And you're going to be seeing top line numbers from us as a result of this booking transformation throughout 2026 and 2027. We're not even talking about possible other upsides that can occur above and beyond the Sunder acquisition, including tailwinds from the industry. Right now, there's a lot of consternation about the removal of the ITC tax credit and the effect that has on what we call cash or loan bookings, and that will be an impact. It's not going to materially impact SunPower because of the Sunder acquisition. If in the future, energy prices increase or some other factor occurs from a market point of view, it causes the loan part of the program to increase, we'll enjoy that as well. So I think this is a pivotal point for the company. We've made a positive move in bookings that's going to allow us to have strong revenue growth, independent of outside activity. And as outside external activity starts to improve in the 2026- and 2027-time frame, you'll see even stronger growth for us.
Thank you. We appreciate listening to my long-winded dissertation.